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Sleeplessnashadow
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PostSubject: An example...   Fri Dec 07, 2007 11:15 am

Just in case you have never seen one... this is 22 LR caliber









Post war German proof mark. From left to right: German Nitro Proof, Proof House located at Munich, proof date 1966. If you are going to buy one of these, ask the seller to see the proof marks and the left side of the receiver. These were marketed under several different names (Iver Johnson EW22HBA, Torro E M1, Erma M22, Erma E M1).

I'm collecting proof dates, markings, and serial numbers for a web page detailing everything E M1.

Manufactured commercially by Erma Werke of Dachau, Bavaria, West Germany 1966 through the late 80's to mid 90's. Initially designed and manufactured by Erma Werke for the German Bundeswehr and Austrian Gendarmerie as a training rifle for the U.S. M1 carbines provided by the U.S. Military Assistance Program (MAP) to both countries. Several hundred thousand commercial models produced and distributed worldwide.

Jim
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PostSubject: Re: An example...   Sat Dec 08, 2007 9:47 pm

As a gunsmith I am all too familiar with the Erma carbines!! While they look the part, they have to rate as one of the most poorly designed, poorly manufactured of low-grade materials, and unreliable rifles I have ever encountered! I can make them run reliably, but would rather not work on them at all. One of the biggest problems with them is the extensive use of zinc alloy die-cast parts. This soft material fractures easily, wears quicky, and cannot be reliably repaired. If you cannot get a genuine M1 Carbine but want a .22 look-alike, buy a Ruger 10/22. It might not be a perfecr replica but it won't let you down!
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Sleeplessnashadow
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PostSubject: Erma Werke's high volume low quality   Sun Dec 09, 2007 1:17 pm

Erma made hundreds of thousands of these 22's. They wholesaled them using Wischo Jagd und Sportswaffen in West Germany. Wischo wholesaled them to other wholesalers, who wholesaled them in their countries. Everybody was making money off these guns, but Erma's investment and overhead was minimal.

I haven't held, shot, or seen first hand an Erma post WWII made weapon I would consider to have any quality whatsoever.

My interest in the E M1 is strictly related to their use by the Bundeswehr and Bundesheer for training.

Erma was into low investment cost, high volume mass production. Not quality weapons that would last for years.

This 1966 proofed E M1 works great. I have a 1967 proofed E M1 that the screws are a stronger metal than the receiver.

I also own a Ruger 10/22 with a factory bull barrel and a beautiful stock. A much better quality weapon. As are the standard model Ruger 10/22's. But it's not really an M1 carbine look-a-like. That's what sold the E M1. Too bad someone didn't make a better quality version than the E M1.
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PostSubject: Re: An example...   Mon Dec 17, 2007 2:48 am

[quote="woodsy"] This soft material fractures easily, wears quicky, and cannot be reliably repaired. quote]

Oh so true, and very, very sad! My late uncle bought one of these in the 70's (to go with his real M1's).

When it was going it was an awesome little weapon. Accounted for many rabbits, possums, goats... whatever got in it's way! Very Happy

Then one sad day out hunting, the slide broke in two. Mad Crying or Very sad
And that was that. I moth balled it from that day onwards, as no one had parts for it, and the gunsmith who attempted to weld the slide together failed misserably. Broke on second round. Mad

That bought about the purchase of a 10-22 deluxe and THAT has never failed me once! Cool

If anyone has a new or good condition slide they want to sell, I'd be keen to restore mine back to operational use?

They also made a .22 magnum version which I read in an old Guns & Ammo mag.
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PostSubject: Resources for Erma E M1 .22 carbine parts   Mon Dec 17, 2007 3:33 am

There are two resources I am aware of for parts for the Erma E M1. HOWEVER, their stock has been running out because many have had the same experience you have had.

Numrich Arms in New York, USA

http://www.e-gunparts.com/productschem.asp?chrMasterModel=2910zEM1

Bob's Gun Shop in Arkansas, USA

http://www.gun-parts.com/erma/

I have e-mailed the German company that was Erma Werke's distributor, and asked them who else might have parts. When I get a reply, I'll post it here.

Wischo in Erlangen, Germany

http://www.wischo.com/index.html

Europe is having the same problem the rest of the world is having obtaining parts. The German online auction website EGun.de frequently has the magazines for sale, at prices of 50 Euros and up. The American online auction website Gunbroker.com, they sell for $60 US and up.

The second most common part people look for is the rear sight. On Gunbroker these sell for $75 and up.

DO NOT remove the rear sight. The set screw is made of a better metal than the receiver. The screw is too short and typically will strip out the beginning of the receiver threads when you try to put it back on. You will notice some of these rifles have a replacement set screw, with good reason.

As poorly as Erma made them, they are great fun to shoot. I have been contacted by people from all over this planet who own them.

I am working on a web page that details their history, as a side project to my main interest, the M1 carbines that served in West Germany and Austria post WWII. It will include how to completely disassemble and reassemble them, which I don't recommend unless it's a necessity.

When I get the web page presentable, I'll put the information here.

I'm surprised more people have not bought them and stripped them for their parts to sell.

I own two. One proofed in 1967 and one proofed in 1968. The one from 1967 works great. The other I'm working on, and may strip it for its parts. Just in case I need a replacement part for the other.

It's worth it to me. The one that works is a really fun gun to shoot. Plus, it's the one depicted above with the low serial number. I may just preserve it and get the other one working.

Jim
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Sleeplessnashadow
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PostSubject: Erma Werke Quality, and lack thereof: An Exception   Mon Dec 17, 2007 3:40 am

This is a P.S. as to Erma.

Sometime after 1952 Erma was given a government contract to service and manufacture parts for the Allied weapons the Germans had been given for police work after the war. Larry Ruth, in War Baby Comes Home, states Erma manufactured an entire M1 carbine.

I have been looking for an example of an Erma Werke M1 carbine, including in Europe. So far, no luck.

However.

I own a Standard Products M1 carbine that has a replacement barrel manufactured by Erma Werke. It has the West German nitro proof mark, with a date of June 1962. This barrel is quality. It is not like anything else I've seen that Erma made.

Jim
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Stolli
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PostSubject: Cocking handle / slide   Fri Dec 21, 2007 7:31 am

I have an E M1 and have had the best time shooting it. I paid $150.00 for it and have shot at least 2000 rounds through it. I considered getting a 15 rnd mag as I only have a 10 rnd one.
I have sadly suffered the same problem as everyone else. The groove on the cocking handle has broken so the slide can move to much to the right, on its way back, making it single shot. I would really like to get the right part but as the thing cost bugger all it isnt something I want to pour money into. I could get a steel one could be made but engineers time aint cheap these days.
If anyone has the solution please let me know.
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PostSubject: Erma pb   Tue Jan 22, 2008 4:28 pm

I had the same problem on my Erma (The groove on the cocking handle has broken ), it was impossible to find the part so I glued a Tie Rap (for electicity purpose) inside the wood and adjusted the thikness to be sure the bolt can move easily. It works fine, i shot thousand of cartriges since and works good .



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PostSubject: Holy Shit! What a great idea.   Sat Jan 26, 2008 8:40 am

Thanks for the idea, I have done the mod as you have shown. Seems to be a definate improvement. I will see how it goes at the range tomorrow.

Has anyone got a spare rear sight? not likely but I have to ask. I want rid of the scope as soon as I can.
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PostSubject: Saved!   Mon Jan 28, 2008 6:37 am

That mod is totally cosha. I expended approx 150 rnds and didn't have a single problem. very happy to have the wee thing going bang again. Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: An example...   Mon Apr 28, 2008 12:03 am

they are great little rifles, i had the Iver Johnson Erma EM1 was the first one i owned i sold and wished i hadn't have. i got another one recently it was proofed in 1968 and is all there an works great i'm glad it wasn't modified in any fashion by the previous owner(s) heres a pic of mine oh and they are cheap to shoot here in the states the M1 carbine ammo here is outrageously priced among other calibers.
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